Skyjuice

I Saw Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 In Water – Woman says

26 March 2014 

Introduction 


Malaysian flight  MH370 went missing on 8 March with 239 people on board.  It was en routed from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.  The experts now pin-pointed the plane's location to be about 2,500 km west of Perth,  Australia.  Till date,  there is still no sighting of the plane nor its debris.  This article is not offering any expert view but some arguments and pictures from another angle. 

The Johor Housewife


A Johor housewife, Mrs Latife Dalelah, claimed that she saw an aircraft  half submerged in the waters  at about 2:30 pm  Malaysian time (same for the rest)  when she was returning to Kuala Lumpur after a pilgrimage to Mecca on 8 March.   The news said that she took Saudis flight SV2058 that left Jeddah at 8.30am but actually,  she took Saudis flight SV2798 and not SV2058 as shown in the attached. 
 



Flight Path of SV 2798

According to flightradar’s flight history,  Saudis Airline SV2788’s flight path is as shown.  On 8 March 2014,  SV 2798 took the red dotted path  flying over Chennai of India.


Using the flight data found at flightrada24,  one could determine that flight SV2798 was  above Chennai at around 1300 hour (5:00 UTC).  It then jumped to show SV2798 at the marked location at 1500 hours as there was no data in flightradar24 for 2 hours between the two time intervals on 8 March.    If one interpolates the time and distance,    one could find the rough location where  Mrs Latife Dalelah sighted the airplane at 14:30 hours.    It was at a distance almost perpendicular to the site where Tomnod map 4543, 5239 and other maps were located.  





The same is shown on  a google earth map where Tomnod maps were tagged.


Update:

For those interested in finding out the co-ordinates of the various Tomnod maps using Google Earth or Google Map can download this file.   It will load and appear automatically in Google Earth or map. To get the co-ordinates,  click the "direction" at the bottom.


 What is Tomnod map?

Tomnod is a website where it allows volunteers to spot and tag any object using satellite images.  So far,  some of the maps showing possible debris findings were circulated around in various forums and twitted around as shown in the Appendix.
 

Can one see object from a plane flying at around 35,000 feet?

Many web articles said can.  One of them claimed that we could see a 737 plane or smaller ones from 30,000 feet and  777 is almost twice the size of 737.  He assumed that one should have a normal vision, or vision that was corrected to be normal.   

This website offered a calculator that says that human eyes can see an object about 250 miles away from 35,000 feet.  This is  roughly the distant from where  Mrs Latife Dalelah was to the Tomnod maps.
 



The Satellite Pinging 


The experts used doppler effect of the satellite pinging and the 4 pings to pin-point the where-about of MH370.  Although this Doppler effect of satellite pinging was never used before to locate a plane,  many,  including the Malaysian PM,  have accepted it beyond reasonable doubts.  This Doppler effect concept appears to go against Mrs Latife Dalelah’s plane sighting because the plane was not moving after it had crashed. It could not have been providing the satellite pings with Doppler effect throughout the next 4 hours.   The only logical explanation that can hold some water is that the aircraft’s  satellite pinger might be floating after the crash and was transmitting the signal although the quality, strength and also the frequency of the signal could be affected after being partly submerged in water.    

Conclusion 


There could and just may be possible that Mrs Latife Dalelah had seen flight MH370.   If that is the case,  the multi-nation search now carrying out in the southern Indian Ocean west of Australia will be futile and will  turn up no result.

Update 1:  Check the vision of the lady  26 March

 

Someone in a forum suggested that lady's vision should be checked as she was over 50.  This suggestion is reasonable but in the first instance,  someone must accept her story.  BTW,  how much would it cost to send a plane there to check it out?
 
 

Update 2:  How deep is the seamount  26 March

 
The seamount or the mountain under water where the Tomnod maps are located is called the "ninetyyeast ridge" in the eastern Indian Ocean as shown.  It is about 5000 km in length,  stretching from the Andaman islands all the way to Western Australia.  According to this echogram from this article,  the ridge is still very deep,   around 1,500 to 2000 metres.  Therefore,  it is likely that any plane landed there would have sunk after sometime.

 

 

 

 Update3 : Picture from the Plane 28 March

 
A Chinese forumer took a photo of Lanzhou airport from a plane.  He said  he was about 10,000 metres (or about 32,800 feet) high and about 200 km away when he took the following  picture with his  Canon digital camera that  has no focusing function.  The parking planes can be seen roughly. 
 
  

Update 4:  Timing of the sighting - 28 March

 
Mrs Latife Dalelah saw  the plane floating in the water at 2:30 pm Malaysian time and the Malaysian's military radar spotted the plane flying around Andaman sea and disappeared from the limit of its screen around 2:15 am,  about 200 miles North West of Penang.  There is an approximate 10 hours between the two locations.  Although the plane might take another hour to fly to the crash site,  the timing is against  Mrs Latife Dalelah's plane sighting unless the plane could float in the water with air pockets in the fuselage and the wings for about 9 hours.
 
 

Update 5: Can Plane float in the water? - 28 March

 
Plane will eventually sink when landed on water.  The time taken will depend on the condition of the aircraft,  how it is damaged as well as the pressure within the aircraft and whether there are still air pockets large enough to hold up the plane.  In the history of aviation,  most planes landed on water sunk within an hour.  However, on 23 November 1996,  there was an Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 (a Boeing 767-260ER) floated in the Indian Ocean for some time until the 50 survivors were rescued. 
 
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Appendix I:  Tomnod maps

1)  Tomnod map 4534 and 5239 


Tomnod map 4534 and 5239 contain some satellite images debris that were suspected to be from MH370.   

5239 appears to show the 2 engines of the Boeing 777

It matches the dimensions of Boeing 777 when a 777 was superimposed as shown in the following picture. 
 
Isn't the engines supposed to have sunk? 

It may be because the plane actually hit the seamount as it crashed (see google earth map)  and the plane did not sink immediately when the satellite image was taken.  The waves or ripples created on top and around the right wing suggested some very big boards as large as a wing of a plane was submerged underneath the water.  Just like what was seen here for this plane

 



Map 4543 which shows some debris that appears to match one of the logo of MAS airline “Malaysia” although many said the fonts were not the same.  It may have been distorted due to the poor resolution of the satellite images 

 


Other debris found around the area   

 

 




 



 

8 comments:

Bill Johnson said...

Some points of your analysis was not correct.

1. You didn't notice this woman's boarding pass showed 40A seat, that means she was sitting on the left hind side so it's impossible to see the area on the right side of the plane as you mentioned.

2. The Chinese photo from Lanzhou is the very polluted city in China ( I stayed there for decades) so the visibility on 3/8/14 above Andaman Sea should be much better than that.

Sky Juice said...

Thanks for the comment

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brett hetherington said...

imagine a cylinder floating in the water tail up ..would this be a scenario where the radio beam would be directional and thus bouncing off the ionosphere and back to the ocean and back to the ionosphere... the movement of the waves and any thermoclines in the water would add a doppler effect to a signal of a slowly drifting but essentially floating fuselage.
as far as I can see saudia use 2 routes routinely. one tracks direct with a turning point via katchell island.the other bisects great andaman and then tracks down the malay peninsula. it is not certain which one was used..i.e. not verified with Saudia.
Fishermen (location not determined saw a plane crash somewhere in or near the malaccan str8. she was is 40A and on the seat maps is right at the end of the lefthand wing so would have has a good view aft. What is not clear is whether she saw before or after crossing the island chain. If your tomnods are correct we have a floater.look then as it gets more complicated as there are underwater waves in the Andaman sea.so any floater may not necessarily follow surface currents. surface water appears to flow south but the underwater waves seem to flow contary to this. the superimposition of the tomnods is at what scale it seems the plane is about 100-200ftdepth?*??? can someone exactly translate her police report statement from malay to english? can someone verify exactly the route of SV2798 on that day...from saudia themselves. then things become more concrete.taking a flight path from a secondary site doesnt guarantee accuracy. Also the flight routinely arrives early so 2.30 could be actually on the malaccan side . the english yachtswoman also sighted a glowing plane spouting blacksmoke just to the east SE of Katchell.

brett hetherington said...

imagine a cylinder floating in the water tail up ..would this be a scenario where the radio beam would be directional and thus bouncing off the ionosphere and back to the ocean and back to the ionosphere... the movement of the waves and any thermoclines in the water would add a doppler effect to a signal of a slowly drifting but essentially floating fuselage.
as far as I can see saudia use 2 routes routinely. one tracks direct with a turning point via katchell island.the other bisects great andaman and then tracks down the malay peninsula. it is not certain which one was used..i.e. not verified with Saudia. Fishermen (location not determined saw a plane crash somewhere in or near the malaccan str8. she was is 40A and on the seat maps is right at the end of the lefthand wing so would have has a good view aft. What is not clear is whether she saw before or after crossing the island chain. If your tomnods are correct we have a floater.look then as it gets more complicated as there are underwater waves in the Andaman sea.so any floater may not necessarily follow surface currents. surface water appears to flow south but the underwater waves seem to flow contary to this. the superimposition of the tomnods is at what scale it seems the plane is about 100-200ftdepth? can someone exactly translate her police report statement from malay to english? can someone verify exactly the route of SV2798 on that day...from saudia themselves. then things become more concrete.taking a flight path from a secondary site doesnt guarantee accuracy. finally the presence of solitons could move a floater vast distances quickly. a quick look at the andaman and bengal show solitons galore.

Sky Juice said...

This was one other comment which was written to me directly.

"My name is Lizzie. I'm just a tomnod user interested in finding the plane like everyone else. I came across your site while searching for info about the account of the Malaysian woman on the plane. I have found your article about the Malaysian woman who thinks she saw the plane very interesting. (dated March 26). I still think there's something to all the witnesses who saw something. Something has always struck me with her account that I wasn't able to write it off so quickly like others have.

I'm trying to plot it all out on google earth, and thus I was wondering if you still had the coordinates of those images? Since tomnod has changed their map numbering system the API to find the coordinates is no longer accurate.

Also someone commented on your article that she didn't have a window seat. I just wanted to add that I don't think that matters...I've been on many flights (international too) that had empty seats and passengers were allowed to spread out to sleep. That could have happened with her too.

Anyway thanks for the interesting article. Would appreciate the coordinates if you still have them. "

Cyndi Hendry said...

Greetings. The location of the Tomnod maps is incorrect. This debris is located in the SCS, not WEST of Banda Aceh. I have since verified the maps locations with Apollo Mapping. I matched cloud cover comparison with the maps Tomnod used. Same sat scans. Apollo Mapping and Tomnod are owned by DigitalGlobe.

Unknown said...

I was just wondering if you had a higher resolution image of the picture you posted on your blog in Update 3. The one taken by the Chinese forumer in an airplane at 10,000 meters. If so can you email that image to me?

Thanks

Ken S